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p1363.md

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Make the Carbon experiment public

Pull request

Table of contents

Problem

Open, transparent, and public development is often the best way to build a developer community. Long-term evolution of Carbon behind closed doors does not align with our core principles.

While early exploration with a limited group of participants has been effective at bootstrapping, a primary goal for the Carbon experiment is to establish whether there will be broad industry interest and participation in this direction. We expect this kind of interest and participation to ultimately result in widespread adoption if the technical components of the experiment succeed. We both want to see how the industry reacts to Carbon and think that reaction will be much more positive if the industry can actively participate and help shape the language.

Background

Historically, Carbon has followed a "quiet" development model. While developed on GitHub using an open source process, the project was not publicly visible or discussed outside the invited set of early participants.

Carbon developed an initial set of criteria that we expected to signal the correct time for the project to become public:

  • Broader field experience required
  • Sustained interest from multiple organizations and individuals
  • A prototype implementation
  • A demonstration of potential
  • Learning material
  • Prepared for broader contributions and feedback
  • Prepared for a launch event

See the removed going_public.md document in this proposal for the full historical criteria and analysis.

Proposal

We should make the Carbon experiment public as soon as reasonably possible, specifically at the upcoming C++ North conference.

Many of the criteria outlined previously have not yet been met, and this proposal specifically suggests shifting Carbon to be public without waiting for them. Instead, we should make Carbon public largely as it is today. We should be open and transparent about the current status. We should frame this as making a nascent project public in order to build it in the open, rather than suggesting it is "done" or "ready" even for evaluation.

Why go public now?

There is no perfect time to shift the project public, it is a tradeoff. The earlier we move the project to be public, the earlier we can gain more broad feedback and participation from the industry. However, it comes at the cost of introducing people to the project at an earlier stage with less material to help them get started. We believe Carbon has crossed the point where this tradeoff suggests sooner would be overall better for the project than later.

The Carbon experiment has accomplished what it can to explore industry interest and participation with limited and targeted outreach to experts. We have built the critical community and design process and framework to support an open technical discussion. We have also developed the key language design ideas sufficiently to show what Carbon would look like clearly and unambiguously. To broaden or deepen the feedback, we will need frank and public discussion with wider groups of users and stakeholders. We will need to iterate with a larger community and a broader set of stakeholders.

The needs of the C++ community remain unmet, and they are eager and asking for exactly Carbon's approach. The technical approach of Carbon directly addresses concrete and current requests from influential C++ developers. These needs are specifically not met by C or C++ as they exist or by Rust or other options, and we have a strategic opportunity to help drive a solution in this space.

A recent example on Twitter:

Speaking as a C/C++ developer, when I write in C/C++, I am doing so due to ecosystem/practical/legacy code constraints I have no control over, which means that being given a superior choice makes no difference to me because I didn't get a chance to choose C/C++ to start with

-- @mcclure111

A recent HackerNews discussion directly suggested essentially the direction we are exploring:

The permanent-ABI compatibility decision was effectively the death-knell for C++. Can't improve the standard library performance, making it effectively useless for the real world. Can't correct mistakes - the language and library warts grow and grow as the years pass by, making it impossible for beginners to pick up and learn the language.

-- lenkite

Last but not least, the Carbon experiment will accelerate thinking about more dramatic ways to improve C++ across the industry.

Planned process for going public

Our planned process is anchored around a few key principles:

  • Replicate LLVM's open-source approach and strategy. This has proven broadly successful over many years.
  • Use existing events and spaces where possible to engage with the C++ community and industry.
  • Emphasize that it's an experiment, not a finished product.
  • Leverage existing C++ ecosystems rather than creating new ecosystems from scratch.

We expect three phases to move things to be public:

  • Get technical components ready: demo, documentation, etc.
  • Do an incremental "road show" with experts, organizations, and WG21 in weeks leading up to an official public announcement to seed early awareness.
  • Announce and make everything public at C++North.

During the second phase, we plan to engage with the following individuals and groups:

  • Industry partners already active in C++ evolution.
  • Influential experts, especially those actively driving C++ evolution and prominently writing blog posts or speaking on C++.
  • Community organizations like #include and Boost.

    • Our intent is to invite large portions of these groups to join community spaces to help engage and establish the community culture.

    The third phase will be oriented around a keynote at CppNorth:

    • Introduce the audience to the motivation for Carbon and its goals.
    • Explain the project, community, and process.
    • Walk through the core language design so far, and touch on exciting future efforts.
    • Provide an extended Q&A to help kick off active discussions, ideally with as many of the current Carbon contributors on stage as possible.
    • Will open the GitHub project read ACLs either right before or during the talk so that the audience can explore during the Q&A and afterward.
    • Will open the contribution ACLs and Discord Chat at the end so that the maximum team bandwidth is available to engage with folks as they begin discussing.

    Public site and communications plan

    • Planning to use a GitHub project and GitHub hosted markdown documentation.
    • Work with existing C++ community blogs to post information about the project after announcement.

    We are specifically not planning on a website, blog, or other more "official" presence. This should anchor on Carbon being an experiment and attracting contributors and participants rather than users.

    Plan for ACLs once public

    GitHub will move to the normal for a public repository:

    • Anyone can create PRs, issues, discussions. This will be fully public.
    • A fairly small number of committers (initially the current set) can merge PRs.

    Discord will be fully public, using the community features to gate entry on CoC and CLA.

    The shared Google drive and docs:

    • Make viewable publicly.
    • Use the existing group (carbon-lang-contributors@googlegroups.com) to provide comment and edit access.
    • New contributors will need to request to join the group to begin contributing in this space, but only to avoid spam. This will be a very low-risk and trivially handed out access.

    Meetings and calendar:

    • As currently, the meeting links would be posted to Discord and anyone there can click through and join.
    • The shared calendar and weekly meeting can also be directly made available to the same group as the drive.
    • In the future, we can explore enabling live-streaming from the weekly meeting and providing a fully public live stream link for those interested.

    Risks and mitigations

    Making Carbon public does raise some significant risks that we need to be aware of and work to mitigate.

    Too many cooks in the kitchen

    • While opening up to the public, we may get a huge influx of feedback and even contributions.
    • This can quickly turn into a situation of too many folks all trying to drive Carbon forward in their own direction.

    Planned mitigations:

    • We're hoping that many of the critical parts of the language design we've prioritized have enough maturity to show a reasonably focused direction that folks should focus on to be useful.
      • We will likely work to avoid immediately reconsidering directions that are already well under way to stay focused, capturing any feedback and marking it as deferred for a time to revisit.
    • Critical aspects of the language design that are still green fields, we're hoping to clearly document as being intentionally deferred in part just to reduce the level of churn.
      • However, we can and should carefully watch for sustained contributors who are looking for an area to drive. That needs to be identified and enabled. We just want to make sure it can be a focused effort.
    • We should make an extra effort to use the more formal process of raising questions for the Carbon Leads to direct the incoming flow. That process is set up in a way that should enable it to queue and process things without ending up in total chaos.
    • Where possible, teams working on Carbon should start making contingency plans to pull in more resources if needed to sustain the engagement.

    Community management overload

    • We may have a sudden influx of community members, with all of them trying to figure out how to collaborate and communicate effectively. This may even include publicity and other factors.
    • Responding to and engaging with this will be both time consuming, and difficult.
    • It will be tempting for the Carbon Leads to attempt to drive these responses, in turn starving other parts of the project.

    Planned mitigations:

    • Provide early access to a growing set of people, especially those interested and effective and helping with community and communication.
    • Contract with a dedicated community engagement specialist.
      • Work with them to recruit moderation teams and other scalable groups to tackle these issues.
    • Leverage moderation scaling tools across our communication platforms to keep the technical work focused and moving.

    Added distraction or confusion to the C++ evolution process

    • Carbon is a very different direction from the continued C++ evolution in WG21.
    • Bringing the C++ community into Carbon and getting them engaged and participating will at least reduce the available resources for WG21 in the C++ community.
    • The existence, and especially any excitement around such a different approach may distract from important work that still needs to get done in WG21.

    Planned mitigations:

    • Carbon's documentation and all of our public communication should include a key message: If C++ fully meets your needs today, you should keep using it. Carbon is only exploring a direction to address specific concerns and problems some users have with C++ today. For other users whose needs are fully met, they should stay focused on the thing that exists and works today: C++.
    • Carbon is building on top of the C++ ecosystem, and we need to be very clear that means it is important to not distract from critical work that needs to happen there. We should be active and vocal in supporting folks who are continuing to drive WG21 forward.
    • We need to be extremely explicit and clear at every stage that Carbon is still an experiment that may not work out.
      • We do not want critical work that needs to happen for C++ and WG21 to stay healthy to be diverted towards Carbon.
    • We plan to engage with committee members actively so they can learn as much as possible from the Carbon experiment and incorporate any and all of our ideas into C++ where they see a path to do so.

    Added distractions from existing new programming languages.

    • Another programming language in the world might dilute some of the efforts going towards new and exciting but existing languages, especially ones with similar performance goals such as Rust.
    • It may also distract users who are unsure of which language to use.

    Planned mitigations:

    • Throughout Carbon's documentation and any public communication, we will take a specific stance to avoid and minimize this effect:
      • If you can use an existing language like Go, Kotlin, or Rust, do so. This experiment is exploring an option for when existing languages don't work, particularly due to needing to interoperate with a large body of C++ code.
    • We should be careful in the tone whenever discussing existing languages or comparing with them, to approach them positively. We should be actively supporting other languages, and our focus should be trying to fill a gap in that ecosystem rather than directly competing.

    Friction with existing LLVM and Clang communities

    While somewhat unlikely, we don't want to create unnecessary friction with the LLVM and especially the Clang community, as they have heavily invested in a C++ compiler and tooling stack and supporting the C++ language.

    Planned mitigations:

    • Need to carefully emphasize that we are build on top of the tremendous work done by the LLVM and Clang communities.
      • LLVM is a critical part of our ability to make a high-performance implementation and have no performance overhead when interoperating with C++ by using a shared compilation environment.
      • Clang is the key to our C++ interoperability implementation plans -- without a production quality frontend with broad cross-platform support it would be impossible to achieve the level of interop we need between C++ and Carbon.
      • Many of the insights that have led to Carbon's design come from experimentation with Clang and C++ extensions, as well as our experience working on the LLVM and Clang codebases themselves.
    • We will clearly and publicly drive improvements to LLVM and Clang upstream when needed for Carbon rather than carrying local patches for long durations.
    • We will also actively engage members of the LLVM community in the Carbon experiment and ensure they are able to participate where interested.
    • Lastly, all Carbon code uses the same license as LLVM so that any of it can be immediately merged into LLVM if useful to the broader project or community.

    Labeled as vaporware

    • We are intentionally moving public while Carbon is still very nascent.
    • Many parts of the language still need to be built.
    • We are front-loading design work heavily, which means we have designed significantly more than is implemented.

    Planned mitigations:

    • Our communication around Carbon will be focused around building the Carbon experiment to emphasize both that it is not yet even a complete experiment, and that our goal is to get help shaping it rather than suggest it is ready for evaluation.
    • We also plan to have clear roadmaps and other artifacts that help give a realistic and credible story around the path from where Carbon is to being a more complete experiment.

    Rationale

    • Community and culture
      • Becoming a fully open project has always been a goal for the project.
      • Moving public will substantially broaden the feedback we get, strengthening our community and directly furthering our goal of being an welcoming and inclusive community.
    • Interoperability with and migration from existing C++ code
      • We need to ensure we can actively engage with users of different C++ codebases to effectively build a compelling interoperability and migration story. This kind of broad engagement is only possible with a public project.

    Alternatives considered

    Delay going public until we have working interop demonstrated

    An appealing time to go public would be when we have a toolchain that implements the core language design and provides a demonstration of the banner feature of Carbon -- C++ interop -- working effectively. If we made this our top priority, we expect we could complete this in the order of a year.

    Advantages:

    • Make the project much more "real" when people first learn of it, and avoid the perception of it being vaporware.
    • Avoids spending significant time and effort engaging with a large community and industry when the project is new and small. That effort could be directed at furthering the design and implementation.

    Disadvantages:

    • It would be difficult or impossible to expand the group working on Carbon significantly, which will at some point limit the rate at which we can execute on the project.
    • We would be have significantly less broad input on the design of Carbon itself and especially of its C++ interop, risking that the design would not actually address the needs of the broader industry.
    • We wouldn't be able to build Carbon in the open and develop trust of the community and industry.
    • We wouldn't be able to involve the broader community and industry in the design and development of Carbon, which might lessen both interest and enthusiasm.
    • We won't start to understand how broadly the industry is interested in the Carbon direction until significantly more effort has been invested.

    The desire to build Carbon in the open, develop strong trust with the community, and understand the breadth of industry interest outweigh the costs and risks of making Carbon public earlier.

    Delay going public until Carbon is a compelling option for C++ developers to adopt

    We could delay still further and build Carbon into a compelling and ready-to-use programming language before going public.

    Advantages:

    • This would in some ways be the most efficient strategy, as it would keep everyone working on Carbon focused without distraction.
    • We would have the best possible first impression on developers by having a largely complete and high quality language ready to go.

    Disadvantages:

    • We still wouldn't know whether the experiment was a success -- both developers and the industry at large might not be interested in Carbon. The result is that this would have the maximum sunk cost at the point where we begin to learn about the industry interest.
    • It is unlikely we could sustain the effort required to reach this point without any incremental milestones.
    • We would likely have very little trust from the community due the prolonged secrecy.
    • Given the timeline, it is very likely that Carbon would leak and lose some of the advantages.
    • This would maximize the risk of some aspect of Carbon being designed in a way that doesn't meet the larger industry needs due to a lack of feedback. It also maximizes the cost of correcting this once discovered.

    This has never been seen as a realistic approach for Carbon, and that doesn't seem to have changed. While it does have some advantages, the tradeoff seems sharply wrong for the needs of the Carbon project.